༺ Veganisme en vrac ༻ (EN-FR)


"If you are a vegan who believes your ED was helped or cured by veganism and you therefore promote veganism to fellow ED sufferers, get this: you are an unethical piece of shit. " 
- Johnny

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I was a Religious Animal Rights Vegan;  not a vegan because of religious reasons but a sectarian fundamentalist evangelical purity driven vegan.

I was applauded and congratulated for helping animals but I never helped animals; I helped vegans.

In retrospect, veganism didn't need me as I could only hurt the movement.  But I needed veganism, and I hurt myself.

- 31/3/2014

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While labels can be handy for zippy-quick descriptions of what you eat - serving as great elevator pitches about your dietary choices or helping you gain acceptance into local potlucks where you won't feel like a freak of nature - they can also become a psychological trap that prevents you from following your body's instincts.
If you choose to put a label on your diet, make sure it doesn't undergo a sneaky "mission creep" into the realm of your self-identity.  Your current food choices may be low-carb, or lowfat or plant-based, or any other number of descriptors - but you are not low-carb; you are not lowfat; you are not plant-based.  You're a human being trying to make choices that best serve you and your specific goals at this point in time.  You are not defined by foods you eat.  You are not a slave to an ideology.  Make you diet work for you; don't work for your diet.
- Denise Minger, A Future Informed By The PastDeath By Food Pyramid

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"Robert M. Pirsig wisely said "The place to improve the world is first in one's own heart and head and hands, and then work outward from there."  Chances are that if you had worked on applying this idea first, you would then have seen how your veganism was not really about improving the world.  Because, what you did, was use it as a weapon."
- Johnny
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Les animaux sont mes amis et je ne mange pas mes amis" est un slogan qui révèle ton hypocrisie.  Les animaux sont tes amis et tu ne MANGES pas tes amis, même au moment où ils meurent dans tes champs de légumes, quand ils sont expulsés de leur territoire, tirés au fusil ou trappés pour protéger ta nourriture vertueuse - tu les aimes tellement que tu les empêches de manger dans tes champs, leurs anciens habitats, parce que tu es en compétion avec eux pour la même nourriture.  Tu paves routes et chemins et anéantis des écosystèmes entiers pour pouvoir conduire ta voiture et construire tes demeures parce que tu es aussi en compétition avec tes amis pour leur territoire.  Tu utilises des produits de tous les jours qui contiennent des morceaux de tes amis et pour ceci, tu dit que tu n'as pas le choix.  Les gens qui s'occupent de ta nourriture et la récoltent dans des conditions inhumaines, qui n'ont pas accès à cette nourriture pour laquelle ils donnent leur vie, qui sont arrosés de pesticides au point d'en être malades ou même d'en mourrir, ces gens sont-ils aussi tes amis?
Le type de compassion dont tu fais preuve ne parle seulement que de ta fixation orale.  La chose importante pour toi est que tes amis ne passent pas tes lèvres, même s'ils meurent quand même pour ta nourriture.  Mais la pureté de ta bouche est plus importante que ces animaux-là.  Ces animaux là ne sont pas tes amis.  
À moi, il me semble que ta compassion s'appelle égo.
- Mars 2014

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"I was so busy being a vegan that I forgot to be a person."
- Johnny
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"Coming from a family filled with OCD and seeing OCD traits in myself I wonder if your anxiety was partly fed by having to manage what you ate while you were a veggie/vegan. I know if I am regimented about something I can easily slip into obsessive behaviors, even small ones that can "snowball" in to full blown compulsions or in your case attacks. When you released your regimented lifestyle and gave yourself freedom from your own restrictions it would make sense that your anxiety would lessen. For example, when I start to notice my obsessive behaviors beginning I stop them by purposely not doing what I am obsessing over. Like grabbing the top plate, I would force myself to take that top plate even though I didn't want to, and after using it and finding there was nothing "wrong" with using it and I am still "alive". I then begin to subside my compulsions. I can see how someone who suffers from OCD may slip into an obsession with eating the right foods on a veggie/vegan diet. This could trigger more obsessions and cause more compulsions and so on until your emotional/mental health is a wreck."
Lorena Petronis

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"I also now view veganism as something that can weaken and destroy the power of women. In many radical and indigenous feminist communities it is widely acknowledged that veganism has been quite an effective tool at weakening and silencing women, and provided women with an ethical justification for the disordered eating frequently inflicted upon them. Women and girls are always taught to deny our needs and our hungers at the expense of our health, and veganism allows us to do that while believing we are ‘saving the world’. We begin to silence each other and police ourselves and turn our potentially revolutionary power inwards until we are completely immobile, sick and ineffective.

If eating the food that keeps many of us healthy means we are all violent, patriarchal murderers, then we live in a truly messed up world. Just like so many things that are natural and quite often beneficial, the act of eating meat has been tainted and damaged by the patriarchy, but that doesn’t mean it is inherently evil. It isn’t anti-feminist to eat meat, it isn’t anti-feminist to nourish your body, it isn’t anti-feminist to value your own health and do whatever it takes to protect it."
- Tasha (x)

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"Once you put a meatless philosophy at the core of your life, you start reeling in everything possible to support that — health arguments, ethical arguments, environmental arguments, sustainability arguments, etc. — until you convince yourself that avoiding animal foods is the only “right” way to live life. I think it’s really hard to be a vegan solely for health reasons or solely for ethical reasons, because eventually, all the pro-vegan arguments smoosh together into one giant ball of virtuous delusion. That was my experience, at least."
- Denise Minger

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Legitimate reasons against veganism:
  • Eating Disorders
  • Some autoimmune diseases
  • Digestive diseases
  • Money / Access
  • Home situation
  • Heath issues
Telling someone they can overcome these things is:
  • Ableist 
  • Insensitive
  • Fucking stupid
  • Just stop
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"Mon incapacité à saisir le point de vue des ex-vegans que je connaissais ne faisait que prouver qu'il y avait des limites à mon empathie et ma compassion."
- Johnny

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"I think we all do this to a greater or lesser extent: when presented with a new piece of information, regardless of what it might be, we tend to interpret it in a way that upsets our current beliefs system as little as possible.

Absolutely everyone is full of shit.

When an article comes out that says that veganism prevents cancers or lowers your blood pressure or is associated with a longer life, we accept it as fact. We post it to our Facebook page and encourage everyone to do the same. Why? Because “the truth” needs to get out.

But how do we know it’s the truth?

And then when another article comes out that says that there’s no adequate vegan substitute for fish oil or that eggs aren’t completely terrible for you, we call that “a lie.” We attack the credibility of the writer, chalk up their incorrect opinion to either ignorance or bias, and probably boycott something or call for someone to lose their job (because, naturally, free speech should be limited to only those who agree with us).

But how do we know that they’re wrong? In neither case have we conducted the studies ourselves. In neither case have we examined the methodology, or gotten a hold of the original data set and done our own statistical analysis. We are simply choosing to believe that which supports what we already believe and rejecting that which runs counter to it.

That is what is called “being full of shit” and the reality is [that us vegans are] just as guilty of it as anyone."
- Carpe Vegan, Losing our Vegan Religion (x)

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"Je croyais que tout le monde manipulait l'information SAUF les vegans.  Que seuls les vegans avaient la seule vraie et bonne information.  Comme une bonne croyante.  J'ai donc maintenant honte de moi et me sens coupable envers les autres."  - Automne 2013


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The Vegan Identity or  The Trippy Vegan or The Vegan Newbie

- Intolerant
- Spreads misinformation
- Adopts dogma as faith
- Cult-like behavior
- Doesn't check sources of pro-vegan information/propaganda
- Doesn't inform oneself outside the vegan community
- Is incapable of personal/critical thinking (and only repeats what other vegans repeat themselves)
(Anonymous)

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"One of the observations that most caught my attention in these discussions was made by a woman who was a vegan for 20–30 years and eventually changed her diet to include some animal products. She observed that being a vegan is much more than deciding what to eat and what not to eat. It is also taking on an identity. It is carrying all the baggage of a persona that must be defended almost every time one picks up a fork. It is, in other words, to take on a practice that has exactly the opposite effect of what most Buddhist (and other spiritual) practices are designed to do, namely, to reduce one’s attachment to a particular identity. And, said this former vegan, whenever one takes on an identity, one loses perspective and enters into a mentality that warps almost everything one sees, systematically refuses to look at evidence impartially, and enters into the epistemological vices of believing things for which one has insufficient evidence and not believing things despite having plenty of evidence. Buddhists called these epistemological vices by the simple term moha, which means the state of being perplexed, confused, infatuated or fooled.”
 - How to Feed an Ego (x)

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"I started with a moral declaration and then sought to justify it: killing is always wrong. But the proper approach to the question of an appropriate human diet is simultaneously much more complicated and much more obvious.

I never thought people were anything other than omnivores; I just thought, like many vegans, that since we could choose not to eat meat, this choice was a moral imperative. I also have to admit, I never really had any problem with people hunting for food, reasoning that it was far superior to grabbing a shrink-wrapped piece of factory meat at the local supermarket.

But the fact is, killing isn’t always wrong. Is it worse for an animal to be raised with care and protection, then – as painlessly as possible – killed for meat, or for an animal to be torn apart by the claws of another animal and eaten alive, which is what happens in “nature”? Why is it okay for other omnivorous animals to eat meat, but not for humans, even though we generally go out of our way to reduce or eliminate the suffering of any animal we’re hunting or slaughtering? Is it really wise to move so far away from the omnivorous diet that our species has evolved, over hundreds of thousands of years, to eat? Do we really want to support industrial agriculture as we depend upon mass-produced processed soy products, out-of-season vegetables, and artificially sourced B12? And without manure, without petroleum-powered (and often petroleum-based) fertilizers, where is all this soy and grain going to come from to feed the starving, desperate world? Ignoring these very real questions is a dangerous luxury afforded only to those of us compassion-driven urbanites who are totally removed from and ignorant of where, in fact, real food comes from."
- Stella
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"Religion doesn’t require theism. Believing that it does is Judeo-Christian bias. Religion requires a system of mythology that informs and patterns beliefs and consequential actions including moral decisions. Vegans have plenty of myths which they perpetuate and hold out as “truth” plus repeat like mantras with absolute certainty. For these myths they present as “truths”, they’ve created their own anthropology, natural order, nutritional science and ecology which all and only confirm their biased view of the world. Anything that challenges their “truth” they close their minds to since it doesn’t fit their hypothesis that they insist is “fact.” Such absolute belief is religion, not science. So yes, veganism is cultish."

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Veganism is neither sustainable, nor able to create global food security, not beneficial to most animals.
I’ve asked this many a time but given that you could live on 1 grass fed cow, 1 waste fed pig, or 1 responsibly hunted dear for a whole year, maybe with some foraged greens, nuts, and berries, why would you eat a diet that has a huge death toll in the growing  [tilling/initial habitat destruction and harvesting] and even huger in the protection of crops and plants/trees from so called “pests”. [hundreds of thousands of gophers are killed in California per year just to protect almond trees].
Field mice, deer, foxes, groundhogs, snakes, rabbits deaths abound in vegetable agriculture.
Then there’s the horrendous impact of transport and other issues of a globalised  food system without which veganism would be impossible and most certainly unpalatable in most regions of the planet.
Animal rights vegans will always chose their “happy”, “cruelty free”! plant diet.
That proves to me that they are not really in it for animals.
Even the cute animals that they do speak about are not served by this. They would be served by actually supporting real humane animal husbandry.
The fact that some big producers promise more than they keep is a reason to support the real thing, not to go vegan.
Of course much vegan propaganda lies, as propaganda tends to do about many issues, especially environmental ones.
But in this world it is on us to inform ourselves properly.
Just like pro life activists vegans don’t want realism, they want their own fantasy.
And no, we do not have to live on meat alone but eating sustainably according to region and season is a win all around.
If you really care about ALL animals and possibly the environment, you’d do that.



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